I'VE
BEEN a naughty boy again, and the SRU's Media department “forgot”
to send me a copy of their weekly media schedule; thus, I missed
yesterday's “squirrel show,” when they put Head of Women's Rugby
Gemma Fay up to talk to the nodding dogs of the mainstream media –
the guys who jump when told to “sit” and “stay,” and who are
too well-trained to mention Stupid 6 or Agenda 3.
Gemma Fay - a genuinely great lady, but, yesterday "A Squirrel"
Picture SNS
Lovely
lassie Gemma, a real role model to girls in Scotland. Ah kent her
faither tae. I am sure, within the constraints which will be placed
on her by the misogynists among the Murrayfield Ayatollahs, she will
do a good job. But, when you see a hack, who will complain privately
about newspapers and journalists being bullied to toe the party line
by Murrayfield, toeing that party line and writing-up his puff piece
on Gemma and women's rugby – while singularly failing to ever
mention Stupid 6 or Agenda 3 – well: shakes head silently.
Meanwhile,
here on the front line, I got some interesting feed-back on
yesterday's post. As always, the readership can see the flaws in
Stupid 6, and aint afraid to list them.
One
of the first btl (below the line) comments we received yesterday
said:
“The
sell around "even stupider" & "fewer but stronger"
has already begun even without any recent official
announcements.
Talk to a Council rep and you might hear the suggestion for Clubs withdrawing from league competitions as perhaps some form of recreational rugby would be more appropriate.
Fewer leagues Clubs = fewer Clubs to distribute participation monies to.
Fewer Clubs getting participation monies = more Clubs struggling to survive.
More Clubs struggling to survive = more Clubs folding.
The Agenda 3 documentation includes "Every club in Scotland will benefit from this increased and sustained investment" - guessing the bit they missed out was that there just won't be as many Clubs.
The more our discussions progress, the more I begin to ponder the question, "how few, is few".”
Talk to a Council rep and you might hear the suggestion for Clubs withdrawing from league competitions as perhaps some form of recreational rugby would be more appropriate.
Fewer leagues Clubs = fewer Clubs to distribute participation monies to.
Fewer Clubs getting participation monies = more Clubs struggling to survive.
More Clubs struggling to survive = more Clubs folding.
The Agenda 3 documentation includes "Every club in Scotland will benefit from this increased and sustained investment" - guessing the bit they missed out was that there just won't be as many Clubs.
The more our discussions progress, the more I begin to ponder the question, "how few, is few".”
Next up an
official with a club asks this pertinent question:
“Whither
National 3?
Imagine a scenario - too many clubs playing national rugby (especially given how super 6 will suck in players to that level) that we need to reconsider the number of national leagues.
Given the real hurdles getting out of the Regional 1 leagues - there is only one promotion place for each of the three regional league winners, that places inordinate barriers to ambitious clubs.”
Imagine a scenario - too many clubs playing national rugby (especially given how super 6 will suck in players to that level) that we need to reconsider the number of national leagues.
Given the real hurdles getting out of the Regional 1 leagues - there is only one promotion place for each of the three regional league winners, that places inordinate barriers to ambitious clubs.”
I
must admit, I have long felt, a Premiership plus three National
Leagues is probably one division too-many.
I can almost see Murrayfield trying to impose a football-style "apartheid", with certain clubs being labelled as "Senior" clubs, while the rest are "Junior", except, these junior clubs will not have the support of a Junior Rugby Union. And, never the twain shall meet. So, no more Ayrs, Curries, Marrs or Stirling Counties emerging from the ranks.
I can almost see Murrayfield trying to impose a football-style "apartheid", with certain clubs being labelled as "Senior" clubs, while the rest are "Junior", except, these junior clubs will not have the support of a Junior Rugby Union. And, never the twain shall meet. So, no more Ayrs, Curries, Marrs or Stirling Counties emerging from the ranks.
The next
commenter came-up with:
“Thinking
about the super 6 squads. Will all of the Melrose 1st team move over
to the franchise? I think not.
The big unknown is how many academy players will pop up in the franchises - and are they actually good enough to play at that level.
So let’s be generous and say 15 of a current clubs squad can make the grade. They still need to fill another 20 slots.
We could have the amateur arm of the franchise (or is it the part time arm of the amateur club?) playing in National 1. So this franchised club will need 70 players to put out a “part-time professional” side and an amateur one. Never mind any other teams they have.
Can’t see any flaws in this approach at all.”
The big unknown is how many academy players will pop up in the franchises - and are they actually good enough to play at that level.
So let’s be generous and say 15 of a current clubs squad can make the grade. They still need to fill another 20 slots.
We could have the amateur arm of the franchise (or is it the part time arm of the amateur club?) playing in National 1. So this franchised club will need 70 players to put out a “part-time professional” side and an amateur one. Never mind any other teams they have.
Can’t see any flaws in this approach at all.”
A
commenter, describing himself as: “A Cynical Second-row” asks:
“Interestingly
the Super 6 documents says: 'Stage 3 players not already with a
pro side will be available to a franchise and some stage 2, but
not all, will be.'
Looking at: http://www.scottishrugby.org/bt-sport-scottish-rugby-academy-0
Looking at: http://www.scottishrugby.org/bt-sport-scottish-rugby-academy-0
gives
us 27 stage 3 players and some number of the 48 stage 2 players
(by my reckoning) to fit into 210 slots in the 6 squads.
If
we take 12 of the stage 2 players, the franchises have to find
171 players, that's the first XV of every premiership club plus 21
further players.
- Will all of them want to do it?
- Will all of them be able to do it?
- Will they want to do it if it means trekking to Aberdeen or Dundee?”
Another reader asks a
different question:
“If
Dundee win a franchise, which league will their amateur arm play
in - they're currently in National 1.
For a part-time professional squad of 35, how many of their current squad will be good enough and how many will need to be imported on an average of around £90 a week?”
For a part-time professional squad of 35, how many of their current squad will be good enough and how many will need to be imported on an average of around £90 a week?”
Our
“Cynical Second-row” then came back with:
“Something
that occurs to me is whether we'll be seeing the return of the
brown envelope, not in the true club game, but in the
franchises.
If payment is limited to £12k including benefits in kind is there not an incentive to offer those players who in the £12k grade a little extra to come to your franchise over another, especially if you're not as geographically attractive.”
If payment is limited to £12k including benefits in kind is there not an incentive to offer those players who in the £12k grade a little extra to come to your franchise over another, especially if you're not as geographically attractive.”
Given, the SRU has already
admitted, during the initial setting-up phase of Stupid 6, the
majority of the players will come from existing Premiership
playing rosters – five of the ten clubs are based in Edinburgh –
and there will probably only be one Edinburgh-based franchise; it
stands to reason, a lot of players will need to be prepared to
travel if they wish to continue playing at their current level.
“Another Disgruntled Club
Official” raises yet another salient point when he writes:
“The
very pertinent point about the "knock on effect" of
Super 6 as has been highlighted by many including current
Boroughmuir Head Coach Peter Wright.
The
rather bizarre answer that we've had from Dodson is that he
believes the opposite will be true because Super 6 will only have
210 players playing in it, whereas the current premiership has
roughly 300 players playing regularly. Failing to recognise that
if, for example, Ayr have a team in Super 6 and National 1, then
they are going to need to recruit a whole load of players from
somewhere as Ayr 2s certainly wouldn't be up to National 1
standard.
So
where are these players going to come from? Either Ayr's 'club'
side will plummet down the leagues while the club itself focuses
on their Super 6 franchise or else they will need to get players
from somewhere else, no doubt arriving from clubs who are already
struggling for numbers.
Another question I would be asking if I were Ayr or any other club looking to take up a franchise is what happens if this fails? What is the contingency plan for these clubs? Will they automatically be placed back in the leagues at 'Premiership' level? Would the clubs 'left behind' allow it?”
Another question I would be asking if I were Ayr or any other club looking to take up a franchise is what happens if this fails? What is the contingency plan for these clubs? Will they automatically be placed back in the leagues at 'Premiership' level? Would the clubs 'left behind' allow it?”
The original commenter,
right at the start of today's piece, came back on that one with:
“No
back-up plan required, just "burn the boats":
https://medium.com/@zacharysexton/burn-the-boats-1093e8a4601c
However, I'd argue in a "burn the boats" strategy, you wouldn't have an amateur team parachuted into a league you thought wasn't fit for purpose.”
However, I'd argue in a "burn the boats" strategy, you wouldn't have an amateur team parachuted into a league you thought wasn't fit for purpose.”
“Another Disgruntled Club
Official” then asked a question which a few others have come up
with:
“I
just wonder if any clubs bidding have asked. Like, what happens if
one or more teams pull out during the 5 year process?
Maybe,
because whoever is funding it tells their club that this is a
monumental waste of my money. Hardly an unlikely scenario. I just
wonder if anyone bidding has asked Dodson what happens in these
types of circumstances that may be outwith their control?”
There is a
precedent for a "professional" club failing. Remember what
became of the "professional" London
Irish/Scottish/Richmond side. If memory serves me correctly, London
Irish survived as a professional entity, Scottish and Richmond had
to rebuild from the lowest level in London Rugby. They have yet to
get back to where they were, and, I would say never will.
OK, that was in England, but, the same thing could happen to a failed franchise here.
OK, that was in England, but, the same thing could happen to a failed franchise here.
A reader,
calling himself: “Clubfan” made this salient point:
- They are woefully short of cash to fund the bid.
- They recognise the geographic challenge they have in enticing players to Dundee.
- They estimate only four or five current first team players are at the standard for Super .
- They will need to drop their Seconds if they get the franchise.
On
the above they could compete in National 1 as it would be their
current team.
I would also contend that Dundee rugby is subject to internecine warfare and there is no love lost between the clubs.
Morgan look terminal as they drop into Midlands 3. Harris only have one team. Carnoustie have picked themselves up since giving up their Caley 1 place. The Uni only have the Medics side playing in Saturday rugby. Panmure mid table in midlands 2. Stobswell regularly losing by 80+ points every week.
If the Dundee HS rejects then go play for the other sides then all well and good but how likely is that?”
I would also contend that Dundee rugby is subject to internecine warfare and there is no love lost between the clubs.
Morgan look terminal as they drop into Midlands 3. Harris only have one team. Carnoustie have picked themselves up since giving up their Caley 1 place. The Uni only have the Medics side playing in Saturday rugby. Panmure mid table in midlands 2. Stobswell regularly losing by 80+ points every week.
If the Dundee HS rejects then go play for the other sides then all well and good but how likely is that?”
“Another
Disgruntled Club Official” then returned to the debate with this
interesting observation:
“Another
question is whether the clubs in National 1 after next season will be
content with having 6 clubs in their league who are effectively 2nd
XVs?
And
does this not encourage the 'warehousing' effect because players will
have little reason not to migrate to the clubs who host Super 6
franchises? After all, they will be playing in the second top tier
and probably top tier of the amateur game.
With
no financial incentive to play for one club over another, the fact
that one club is directly connected to a Super 6 Team will be a big
draw for ambitious players or indeed any player looking for a new
club.”
I have the distinct impression, this debate still has a long way to run.

Some excellent comments again SM! As I have stated many times Stupid 6 can ONLY be about control of all elite players and a deliberate and calculated plan to reduce the number of Clubs. Nobody will argue that at the lower leves of the Club game perhaps local fixtures are more sustainable than traveling long distance to participate in a league.
ReplyDeleteBut and it is a big BUT ! That should be decided by the Clubs themselves not forced on them by the Executive!. As I see it if Stupid 6 lasts five years it will probably force around 40 to 50 Clubs to the wall.
As for placing teams back into the league structure that would compound the problem and as I see it would need agreement at an AGM.
One other very valid point ! If the stupid 6 agreement varies so much from week to week I'm sure it could be subject to legal challenge from those who either didn't apply initially or from those that were unsuccessful!! Just saying like.
That’s seems to be the way of the world these days. Journalists are few and take ready made copy with open arms. In addition they don’t want to harm the source if the ready made copy so won’t bite back.
ReplyDeleteI wish Ms Fay every success and think age makes some very valid points.
One of these is facilities. How many clubs have changing rooms set up so men and women can use them at the same time?
How much will it cost to create these (if indeed the current facilities can be remodelled?). Millions.
I don’t doubt the SRU commitment to growing the womens game. But fine words don’t produce clubhouses that cater for all.
But Clubs have been told not to expect any facility development cash from the Union once Super 6 is implemented, as
Delete"franchise grounds will take priority for the financial support aimed at developing club facilities financed by or through Scottish Rugby."
Good point pegj
DeleteFeels a bit like I really want to buy a Mercedes sports car but I can only pay for a second hand Vauxhall Corsa (Car makes picked randomly and no slight meant to Vauxhall’s)